[Obama's Original Birth Record]

Yes, it bothers me. He never had to do it legally, so why bother? He's essentially acknowledging to the TPers that "I must to you special people prove beyond a show of a doubt that I am a natural born citizen, a Christian, hsve no real ties to The Weathermen Underground, etc.

Watch, this same group of pinheads will want all his college transcripts, and on and on. He just gave them the inch they wanted- the mile is next.

Actually I think Obama figured that it was about running it's course in making the GOP look stupid. The Establishment Republicans were starting to back away from even winking along with the birthers and even FOX News was trying shut them up.

The whole "birther" joke was only worthwhile as long as the GOP kept going along with it. Now that they are backing away Obama releases his "long form" and suddenly *anyone* on the Republican side who keeps agreeing with the ignorant bigoted birthers looks really, really stupid (instead of just stupid).

And the best part from Obama viewpoint, is that the birthers aren't going to go away just because he released what they have been asking for. They will *continue* to disbelieve and make outrageous claims and demand even more "proof". It was *never* about the "long form" anyway, it was about the Black Man in the White House. And if the GOP tries to pander to this part of their "base" they will get slammed even more.

It's another thing altogether when Donald Trump spews it on the Today show.

I think he jumped the gun, though. There was a pretty big groundswell of media attention the last couple of days for debunking birthers. CNN, the NY Times, and Fox News, among others.

What's done is done; now we see if the birthers are intellectually honest enough to accept the evidence they say they've been waiting for.

(Stifling laughter)

jfxgillis, you should consider attaching a poll to this seed asking people if they believe the document to be authentic or fake.

I think doing this will reveal a disturbing trend that, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary and the release of this official certified document, some people will chose the take the low road and put their political dismay, or in some cases outright dislike or hatred, for the President ahead of reasonable thought and facts.

Now Trump is starting on Obama about his records from Occidental College.

This won't end.

Obama made a mistake in my opinion.

Death by a thousand paper cuts.

This won't end.

Obama made a mistake in my opinion.

have to agree, never should have acquiesced.. because it'll be called a fake or they'll want something else... it'll never end.. they are a class of people that have no class..

If the bona fide certificate doesn't satisfy the after-birthers, what will they do next? Photoshop Obama's face onto a chimp?

I don't know how to blame Obama for doing this when a recent poll showed that 45 percent of Republicans thought that Obama was not born in the United States. Then Wacko Trump shamelessly sucked up to that 45 percent to say he did not believe Obama was not in the United States. It freels like he just wants their votes. It could also be that he is a wacko billionaire walking around with a massive comb over everyone stares at.

I remember the 2008 presidential race when the birther conspiracy theories started and a lot of it was coming from the white nationalists and racists. They can't say "we hate n####rs" or "we hate diversity" so the next best thing is a birth conspiracy theory. Back then the same people were circulating photoshopped pictures of Obama as a chimpanzee, family photos of the Obama family with the caption "ghetto trash" and a picture of Michelle caught in the middle of a funny facial expression in front of the daughters with the caption "Michelle makes monkey noises to entertain daughters."

I hope this ends the birther conspiracy thang and that the racists crawl back under the rocks from whence they came.

Yes, I agree - debunking the conspiracy theory will make the one and the same racist Teapublicans even more desperate to find an alternative. My bet is there is a chain e-mail in process being circulated by now in response to this announcement probably along the lines that the long form shown is a forgery according to their "forgery expert" (dressed in bedsheets). It seems to be the same old, same old KKK group but they aren't allowed to lynch people or burn crosses on lawns anymore (politically incorrect).

And he wanted them all to stop running stories about it. Period.

Jack - think they'll listen to him? This is still a democracy after all where we embrace freedom of the press, freedom of speech, yes? The bottom line is his timing makes him appear weak....as others have said played by the Donald "like a fiddle". This is what happens when you play games. He thought he could continue on with his little game but apparently he couldn't because when the Donald speaks....people (for better or worse) listen.

I'm sure you know of the studies showing that de-bunking mis-information as such is more likely to entrench the mis-information than to neutralize it.

Among a subset of the population, sure. But I think it was worthwhile, at this point, for the big media organizations to do comprehensive stories just to wash their hands of it. This gives them additional excuse to stop, perhaps, but no one can say they didn't do their own investigation (pointless as it might have been).

spiffie wrote:

I think it was worthwhile, at this point, for the big media organizations to do comprehensive stories just to wash their hands of it. This gives them additional excuse to stop, perhaps,

You're right that this will stop the mass media from wasting time on stories debunking the birther baloney, but, unfortunately, stories about afterbirthers are going to be deemed newsworthy for a while.

Yes, it bothers me. He never had to do it legally, so why bother?

I'm kinda with you on this, demmy. I'm torn, I'm pissed he gave in to these goatheads, but I'm pissed with them too that important National business had to be diverted to this bull@!$%#.

I mean, we have serious problems, and to spent 2 minutes satisfying a few fleabrains is galling. From BOTH sides. I firmly believe you're absolutely right. These dummies will want his college transcripts, his Marriage Certificate, his daughter's Proof of Live Birth, his Library Card, his...

And HE opened the door to it. His biggest flaw, IMO, is that he's too "Mother Theresa" and not enough "Johnnie Cochran". He conciliates instead of giving someone a bloody nose. I think we should send him a pair of boxing gloves, with instructions on how to use them.

Dale S wrote:

I'm torn, I'm pissed he gave in to these goatheads, but I'm pissed with them too that important National business had to be diverted to this bull@!$%#.

I mean, we have serious problems, and to spent 2 minutes satisfying a few fleabrains is galling.

I have to agree with that, Dale.

In the long run, it doesn't make much difference. Birthers are going to be birthers.

The outcome would be pretty much the same if Obama had just ignored them.

It's a @!$%#ing shame that this seed got 100+ comments and 50+ votes in the same period that my Petraeus/Panetta seed, posted at the same time, got ONE COMMENT (yours, of course).

Jack 2.13--it is a shame. That said it's kinda funny coincidence that these two big stories broke the same day from the WH or is it?

Lisa, we go back to 'damned if he does and damned if he doesn't'. By not showing the original birth certificate, he was 'hiding something'. Now he is showing it and is declared to be 'weak'.

Thanks for making me smile.

I now know why Trump is doing this stuff. The Republicans are proposing serious budget cuts that will affect many of their normal supporters: the elderly and middle aged people. The Republicans know that if the people see this and realize just what scum the republicans are, they will lose their support in the 2012 elections. Trump is distracting attention away from the destructive and greedy Republicans. People will hear about the birth certificate and the college records. They will not hear about what the republicans are doing to cut the throats of our elderly, disabled and veterans of war. Obama realized their plan to divert attention. He took the wind out of the diversion sailboat. It was wonderful. Now we can go back to seeing what criminals the Republicans actually are.

Now that's the way you spin jfx........

Great attempt at the SPIN!

Trump brought the "Chosen One" to his knees, just more proof of a failed presidency!

I think Obama made the perfect play here. After two years of this BS, then Trump jumping on the bandwagon, and seeing the momentum he was garnering with this movement, Obama picked the perfect time to slap him and show him the liar, we who do our research, know him to be. I hope the network dumps his ass now, as it makes them look like advocates of this craziness. This will go down in history as extraordinary questioning of a sitting president, and is getting good press as we type, by networks wanting to distance themselves from this silliness. Brilliant timing IMHO. Any further tripe connected with this movement will only serve to disconnect participating republicans from the WH. Dump the Chump Trump!! I have to wonder how many has been "Celebrities" will want to associate themselves with this AH now. We'll see.

"You want to waste your time on this @!$%# and then complain when you don't get to ask about other stuff? Screw you."

Jack 2.21--of course there is no such thing as "coincidence" when it comes to this WH. But you JUST don't get it do you? NONE of this was ever about HIM....it was always about the AMERICAN PEOPLE. And WE (not the beltway elites) have a right to the answers they sought on that "other stuff."

Well, we the AMERICAN PEOPLE have been "screwed" by him for long enough.

Barry should release his college transcripts now...... today!!!!!!

It will spell Affirmative Action!

Trump/Romney 2012

And WE (not the beltway elites) have a right to the answers they sought on that "other stuff."

Lisa, you had a BC and you had it since 2008. If you refused to believe it was real in the face of a mountain of evidence to the contrary, then the problem lies with you and yours. Obama met the legal requirement to prove where he was born, and even went beyond that by putting a copy of his BC on the internet, now for the second time.

Barry should release his college transcripts now...... today!!!!!!

Why? How is that any of your business?

It will spell Affirmative Action!

You cannot "affirmative action" your way into Columbia or Harvard Law with poor grades. There are enough qualified minority students to meet any diversity standard either school has. They dont need to pick unqualified poor black kids up, so they dont...

Trump brought the "Chosen One" to his knees, just more proof of a failed presidency!

Never mind the fact that Trump is playing directly into President Obama's hands, smellitcoming...

But here’s the thing – we’re pretty sure Obama’s political team is not that sorry that Trump is doing well.

Consider if from their point of view. A substantial portion of Republican voters remain suspicious of Obama’s origins. It’s an issue that one way or another was going to surface in the 2012 campaign. If Obama releases his birth certificate now, yes, that may help Trump. But Trump is currently the nor’easter of GOP politics – a big wind that’s rattling all the other contenders.

Obama's advisors believe the developer/reality show star is unelectable because his unfavorable rating among independents and the electorate at large is so high. A recent Gallup survey found that 64 percent of registered voters said they would definitely not vote for Trump for president.

Yet he has enough strength among GOP voters to keep more serious candidates (we’re looking at you, Mitt Romney and Tim Pawlenty) from gaining momentum.

So the longer Trump remains a GOP frontrunner, the better for Obama. That’s how the Democratic political theory might go, anyway – and if you don’t think political consultants are that Machiavellian, you haven’t watched enough Kennedy School of Government seminars on late-night C-SPAN3.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2011/0427/Birth-certificate-released-Did-Donald-Trump-just-school-President-Obama

This is nothing more than a pyrrhic victory for Trump...

Democrats demanded to see John McCains because they wanted to say he was not eligible to run for President.

Democrats demanded to see John McCains because they wanted to say he was not eligible to run for President.

Really? Hmm....never heard that one.

ZERO Logical voter - this just goes to show you that the birthers are moronic brain dead racists.

The next thing the birthers will ask for will be his passport to Indonesia or Pakistan. Or his registration for the draft. Or his college transcripts. This will never end now. The President made a strategic mistake into giving in to these people.

Lola, you don't remember it because it isn't true. There was a brief question about his birth in Panama which was answered when it was learned that his mother had merely failed to get his birth information recorded in a timely manner. The Democrats let it go at that. Little did we know that the racism rife in Republican ranks would show itself in such an ugly fashion.

Mike, that was my initial reaction as well, but since good grades are not a requirement for the Presidency I wouldn't worry too much about that. If Trump now wants to pursue whether a five-year-old renounced his citizenship, let him spend money trying to get information out of those countries.

#4.2:Really? Hmm....never heard that one.

Me either! I don't believe it.

#4.1:Democrats demanded to see John McCains because they wanted to say he was not eligible to run for President.

Do you have documented proof of this? Please provide it.

Democrats demanded to see John McCains because they wanted to say he was not eligible to run for President.

When I heard there was a slight chance McCain might be ineligible due to some arcane technicality, I said, "So what? Let him run. He's an American." Then when the technicality turned out to not apply to McCain, it was forgotten.

Wasn't John Mc Cain a cabin boy on the mayflower.

to-days Trump press conference is prove positive that he is not a human, he is clockwork, Obama wound him up and off he went.

Donald the clockwork birther duck.

McCain, by virtue of being a military brat, was born in the Panama Canal Zone. I can't remember all the details but there are applicable laws that made that a non-issue.

Democrats demanded to see John McCains because they wanted to say he was not eligible to run for President.

Horse@!$%#. Pure, unadulterated horse@!$%#.

I think somebody filed a lawsuit during the campaign regarding McCain and Obama's births, but it was dismissed when brought before a judge. I believe that's what happened.

BTW...I don't believe that Trump is gonna run. Do you know how much power and money an egomaniac has to give up to become President??

Charles, I think this cements it. He will not run. Now the other Republican hopefuls will really attack him on this "issue" relentlessly if he does. I believe that he was gambling that the President would dig in his heels and refuse ever to release the damn thing. Even if that had panned out, I think he would not have continued past May 22. Now come May 22, he will announce victory in that he "forced" the President to do his bidding and then go merrily on his way. (He will also "find out" that the job doesn't pay enough. Wait for it.)

Well, uh, um.........I think they just provided from the git go! Just guessing.

keepfree - lots of big generalities in your post. Who is the 'right wing'? Is that Limbaugh, Levin, Gingrich, Romney, Pawlenty, Palin? Who? because most Republicans who hold an elective office have always said that they assumed he was born in HI but should release his long form just to but the issue to rest. Can you name one Republican in the Congress who claimed he was born in Africa? And if you can, does that mean the entire 'right wing' claims he was born in Africa?

it is to stop the frivolous lawsuits, the lying by the right wing in this smear campaign,

They weren't 'lying'. They were asking legitimate questions just like some people on the left did when they wanted to see John McCains birth certificate when they learened he was not born in the US.

The sad thing about obama's announcement today is that he seemed to be saying that this should put the issue int he past and he can move on to more important things now. This has been holding him up? This is what has kept him from being engaged during the past two years of failure to act on important issues? And now we'll see everything get taken care of?

That's more pathetic than the birthers.

But now the USA looks like a fool in the eyes of the world. When can this country start tackling SERIOUS issues?

To the Republinuts, this was a serious issue. The economy, not so much.

But now the USA looks like a fool in the eyes of the world. When can this country start tackling SERIOUS issues?

As soon as we get a SERIOUS President.

To the Republinuts, this was a serious issue. The economy, not so much.

Maricopa - That's a ridiculous staement in light of the fact that barack obama, a democrat, had the WH, the Senate, and the House for two years and could not produce a single jobs bill while unemployment rose to 10%. Your president has no knowledge of economics, has never held a private sector job, and has not surrounded himself with people who understand business or economics. In fact, at every opportunity he blames business and corporations for all our problems. obama excels at blame and fails completely at solutions.

On the other hand, the Republicans in Congress have offered a serious budget in order to get our debt under control while your president dismissed it out of hand, probably without reading it. All obama can do is print and borrow - he dosen't know what else to do.

On the other hand, the Republicans in Congress have offered a serious budget in order to get our debt under control while your president dismissed it out of hand, probably without reading it. All obama can do is print and borrow - he dosen't know what else to do.

Lol again. "My president"? I didn't vote for him; but, your "people" made this the biggest issue of his administration, not him. "You people" come up with the silliest (read: crazy) issues to criticize the man himself.

obama's birth cert isn't even close to the biggest issue of his first term. The biggest issue is 'his' health care bill which was written by Pelosi and Reid and turned out to be an unconstitutional unmanagable cluster which would never work, would cost a fortune, would ruin the best healthcare in the world, and, thanfully, has been repealed by the House and will be struck down in the SCOTUS.

The second biggest issue is the economy, or more correctly, obama's lack of engagement in the economy. Thank God the birther issue is behind him now so he can get serious about serious issues (as he gets on his plane and flies to Chicago with Michelle to tape the Oprah show). He's a serious guy. :)

Greg:

he seemed to be saying that this should put the issue int he past and he can move on to more important things now. This has been holding him up?

I believe President Obama said that 'we' could move on. He hasn't given the accusations of him being a Muslim, a foreigner, etc. much attention. However, since something like 50 percent of GOP voters in Iowa believe he was not native born, the issue has clearly snowballed during his administration.

He put the fears and concerns of these earnest GOP lemmings, er, followers, er voters to rest.

Next.

Greg its obvious you have no clue how an economy works, what our unemployment situation was through the bush recession and the Bush market crash. Please get informed before you post. I embarrassed for you.

Jack,

called Trump a "carnival barker"

President Obama is "speaking truth to power".

Stupid Americans need to understand that Trump is an egotistical, maniacal, narcissist.

Oh. And a godawful business manager to boot, who has bankrupted some of his companies. With other people's money.

He is where he is, from the wealth his father bequeathed.

Caltha, I totally agree with your post. It will be good for the dems if he can just keep going like the Energizer Bunny while the GOP scrambles around trying to get some of the oxygen Trump sucks out of the room. It's amusing to watch this little GOP circus play out while at a safe distance.

Mitt who? Rand who? Newt who?

lol

TennisMom2,

To quote Bo Cutter:

But for President Obama, The Donald is the gift that keeps on giving. Every time he opens his mouth a million Americans move toward President Obama, every other Republican candidate is trapped a little bit more in the craziness, and the sheer emptiness of the current Republican platform becomes more apparent.

Excellent, Caltha, and very true which is why most Tea Baggers will ignore it. Words like 'fact' 'truth' and 'proof' make them uncomfortable.

Now we're going to hear how happy the GOP is that the president really has a birth certificate. Bull.... it'll only be a matter of time until the next racist rant comes out of their mouths...

Yeah, check out TPN today. According to them, the Constitution explicitly states that in order to be a citizen, both parents must be citizens, regardless of where a person is born.

The nutjobs will never accept him - however, for those moderates who may have questioned...the issue is put to rest.

Yeah, check out TPN today. According to them, the Constitution explicitly states that in order to be a citizen, both parents must be citizens, regardless of where a person is born.

That's because some idiot blogger on an idiotically named WorldNetDaily-like site called "thepostemail.com" wrote something he titled "A Legal Analysis of U.S. Citizenship." And of course, the right wing has taken it up as their ridiculously incorrect new talking point. (It's already been linked to on another thread here on Newsvine.)

Never mind that the guy who wrote it isn't a judge, a law professor, a legal scholar of any kind, and doesn't appear to understand the Constitution. He's just some dumbass who wrote an article on the Internet. And as we all know, if it's on the Internet, it must be true.

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

Good Question. If he had nothing to hide, why wait so long? Makes Obama look even more foolish.

He released his BC years ago. Back during the campaign if I am not mistaken. How is that letting this linger?

He was saving it for his re-election campaign ? I am guessing so. He could have done this right when the issue came to light and put it to rest but he decided it was timing, 2012 timing. It had absolutely nothing to do with race and I swear my head is about ready to spin off reading some of these comments. There was a question about his legitimacy in running, as was the same thing with McCain. Mccain provided the proper prooof but of course Obama didn't and that's where the questions came from .. an almost "what is he hiding" type of mystery around it. Then the race card got played, like it always does.

I am glad he finally stepped up and provided what was needed, but he has already managed to divide the country so much that it doesn't matter anymore. Of course on the Vine it will always be about race, but in the real world we all know it was about legitimacy of him being able to run.

EJ..he presented proof..it was the "birthers" who refused to accept it. The RNC, even then Sen Clinton, AND Sen McCain all accepted the birth cert then Sen Obama presented.

In truth, and I've said this before, how stupid, and I do mean REALLY stupid, would the DNC have been to knowingly and deliberately run a candidate that wasn't eligible? When it came out, and it would have, what would that have done to the Dem party?

I swear, the foxbots can spin anything. It's really remarkable. Ya'll have been SHUT DOWN. Get it?

Good Question. If he had nothing to hide, why wait so long?

Because it didn't matter?

Makes Obama look even more foolish.

I'd think it makes fools of those who've been claiming Obama's legal birth document, that has been in the public for 2+ years, was invalid.

I mean, what of the people who wanted to make an issue of the temp elections clerk? The Obama grandmother story? The forgery claims? The false Kenyan documents? The whining about passports? The absurdity of the Fulbright scholarship claims? Hell, we had, on Newsvine, a person claiming Obama's book discussed him burning his Kenyan birth certificate.

There was a question about his legitimacy in running, as was the same thing with McCain. Mccain provided the proper prooof but of course Obama didn't and that's where the questions came from

Are you @!$%#ting me? So the legal, verified, state certified BC Hawaii released wasn't "proper proof"? On what planet?

I am glad he finally stepped up and provided what was needed, but he has already managed to divide the country so much that it doesn't matter anymore

So releasing a state certified copy of your BC for the world to see is "diving the country". No sir, it would appear that the ones dividing the country were the ones who were denying the ;egitamacy of the BC in the first place.

Here's another question,Patriot: how come it took so long for "birthers" to accept reality and come off of their delusions?

I'll bet you a dollar there's no RIP in regards to birther nonsense. ;-)

Racism never dies.

I for one am sad that the birther controversy may be ending. The longer it goes on the more the right wing base reveals its fundamental nature: stupid, crazy, racist, hypocritical. The 50% of Republicans who are rational moderates must be thoroughly embarrassed, kind of like normal people feel when the moronic asshat uncle (who's almost always a conservative) gets drunk at the family reunion.

Just look at the birthers posting to this thread: the fringiest of the lunatic fringe.

sounds abit shady to me !

Yes Rob, of course it does. Is there anything you could name that would possibly convince you?

It didn't take long. He was asked about his birth certificate, and provided an official birth certificate back during the campaign, in 2008. That should have been the end of it.

But people complained about the "form" - so in order to get this, they had to get permission and get a special waiver so that they could make an exception to the current law and practices of the State of Hawaii. It was stupid and unnecessary.

What took so long ?.....when I lost mine, I just went to the state office building and got it within 1/2 hour ! sounds abit shady to me !

Maybe your status rises higher than the Presidents, you think.?

Anderson COOPER: He (Trump) also says you can just go and get your original birth certificate if you want. Is it that easy?

Gary TUCHMAN (Lead CNN correspondent on birther issue) : This is a complicated factor. To get the short version it takes five or ten minutes if there's no one in line. It takes $7. And it's official. It's what you can --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: And that's what you did with that guy Stig who was born on the same day as Obama.

TUCHMAN: Right. The reason it's complicated, though, is that you can technically get your original vault certificate but you have to file under the law in Hawaii a Freedom of Information request. It takes weeks. And to be very frank with you, the state of Hawaii doesn't want people getting that certificate because it takes a long time to find, it takes a lot of man-hours, and it's not as official as the short version Barack Obama has.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1104/25/acd.02.html

The pre 2001 birth certificates are not digitized. That is why they discourage people from trying to get them.

Obama was playing the fool Republicans. That's all there is to it

JR--indeed. And now that gig is up. Thanks to the Donald who just played our President for the fool.

lisaed, you can't put lipstick on a pig. Trump has made such a fool of himself he has lost any chance of appealing to anyone beyond the 15% right wing fringe. He won't run now.

He won't run now.

JR--so what? I was never among those who believed he would. He should be bowing out gracefully oh around the time that Celebrity Apprentice calls it a rap for the season. He served his purpose.

Wow lisa, I think John Russell just referred to you as the

the 15% right wing fringe.

Good Stuff.

How long does it take you to get a birth Certificate if you lose it ?

The form Obama first provided? The official, legally recognized form? Anywhere from immediately to a couple weeks.

The "long form" the birthers have been demanding, no idea. Never had a need to use it, after all the COLB I got worked for driver licenses, passports, visas, adoption paperwork, and yes, even for little league. And I suppose would work if ever wanted to run for President (since I am White).

But that one wasn't good enough Rob.... The one you get from the Bureau of Vital Statistics... The only one accepted in a US court..... That the one you mean??? IT WASN"T GOOD ENOUGH ROB! Jeez...............

. Now, the birthers will want to see his driver's license, library card, or whatever else they can think of, ......

.....or maybe want proof of weather or not he's been circumcised, a procedure some thinks that can denote one's religion, race,ethnicity,..etc, and if he has, they would want to know who performed the surgery, was it a licensed physician or a witch doctor,etc .....The birthers will leave no turd unturned.

I just heard Trump yesterday say he was told Obamas birth certificate was missing. And he had all these investigaters following up.

Trump is taking you birther idiots for a sleigh ride.

Then after Trump declares the birth certificate is missing, he takes credit for Obama producing it.

Trump is a clown and the people that are giving Trump all this credit for nothing are clowns too.

duh-he was born in Hawaii. He was born on American soil. What part of that are you not getting?

He should never have bothered releasing anything other that the official certificate of live birth that has been out there for well over 2 years now. Birthers have gotten what they wanted with this release: more attention and additional opportunity to create still new racist lies.

hhabilis:

Now we can move on to the real question: whether the child of a foreign citizen and a minor (as Stanley Ann Dunham was in 1961) is a "natural born Citizen" as required by the Constitution for the purpose of determining eligibility for the Presidency.

Apart from the completely irrelevant fact that the president's mother was not a minor at the time of his birth—as stated on the long form released today—the answer to your "real question" is obvious.

Yes, the president has fulfilled all the constitutional requirements to be president. Here's everything the Constitution has to say about it:

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.

http://topics.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articleii#section1

There is no requirement whatsoever about the age or citizenship of either parent.

In 1961 the age of majority was 21. Under the laws in effect in 1961, Stanley Ann Dunham, age 18, was a minor. Long-established legal precedent holds that the laws in effect at the time of a particular event or act determine the legal status of that event or act, regardless of how the law might have changed in the interval. The Constitution itself prohibits ex post facto laws (i.e.: laws that change the legal status of an act after it has been committed). So Dunham's legal status at the time of Obama's birth was, and always will be, that of a minor.

The question has never been whether Obama was born in Hawaii, but whether he is eligible for the Presidency under the requirements of the Constitution. Had he been foreign-born, that would have provided a quick, simple answer: no; which is why until now that has been the focus of those who doubt his eligibility.

Because it is now firmly established that he was born in Hawaii, the answer becomes infinitely more complicated and revolves around the definition of "natural born Citizen", which is not given in the Constitution, but which we may reasonably conclude from context is somehow different from standard citizenship.

Did the framers regard a child born of a foreign parent as a "natural born" citizen? Apparently not, because the very next clause provides a one-time exception for those who may have been foreign-born or born of foreign parents, but who were citizens at the time the Constitution was adopted. Much further research will be required to determine just what English-speakers in 1787 understood by the phrase.

Supposing such research finds that in 1787 a child born of one foreign national and one citizen parent was in fact regarded as a "natural born" citizen (which I strongly doubt, given the phrasing in the Constitution)? Then the issue becomes whether or not a minor can confer citizenship, since by definition citizenship is an adult status; even though minors are often called citizens, under law they cannot participate in the duties of citizenship, nor can they claim any benefit except through their parents, a guardian, or a court of law acting in loco parentis. And as I explained above, in 1961 Obama's mother was legally a minor.

Eligibility in a case such as Obama's is a thorny, multi-layered question which has been neglected, because the generation to which the second citizenship clause applied has been in the grave for two centuries, and until now no one has had the audacity to hope they might become President even though a parent was a foreign national. There is no case law to guide us, so we should welcome the opportunity to settle the matter for the future.

My bet would be that when the Constitution was written a "natural born Citizen" was one whose parents were both citizens of the jurisdiction in question. And that's the standard which should apply today.

In 1961 the age of majority was 21.

Really? Minors were being drafted into the armed forces?

But again ... not relevant to Obama's eligibility under the Constitution:

My bet would be that when the Constitution was written a "natural born Citizen" was one whose parents were both citizens of the jurisdiction in question.

How much did you want to bet on that?

My bet would be that when the Constitution was written (1787-1789), no one in the United States had two parents who were both citizens of the United States.

My bet would be that when the Constitution was written (1787-1789), no one in the United States had two parents who were both citizens of the United States.

And you would win that bet, which is undoubtedly why the framers included the second citizenship clause. And why they differentiated it from the "natural born Citizen" clause going forward; otherwise there would have been no need to make the distinction.

Really? Minors were being drafted into the armed forces?

Yes. That was the impetus behind the drive to lower the voting, drinking, and contract liability ages to 18. When I was drafted in 1969 at age 19, I couldn't vote, drink alcohol, or sign a contract. Nowadays, especially with the law allowing juveniles to be prosecuted in adult court for certain crimes, the dividing line between minor and adult is no longer clear and bright as it once was, but has been smooshed out over several years, between age 12 (adult prosecution in several states) and 21 (drinking age everywhere, back up from age 18 due to the Reagan admin's threat to withhold highway funds from states which didn't raise it back to 21). Even the age of sexual consent is variable depending on circumstances and location.

Good grief..don't give them any more ideas.....

Yes, apparently a BC does exist, but the question is: Will it glow in the dark? And will infrared show an hidden image of Obama on the paper, giving the birthers the middle finger?

Solid proof that the willfully ignorant will choose to remain so.

After-birther responses: Releasing the BC now is a smoke screen for other issues. Typical. Orly Taitz must be having a cow right now.

Obama did provide the legally required birth certificate in 2008.

It is you birthers that are "full of lies and deceit."

If Obama would have had his sh-- together in the first place, none of this would have been a topic

incorrect... Obama produced all the legally mandated documents necessary to run for president... it wasn't obama that didn't have his @!$%# together... the problem quite possibly rests with a group of people that just couldn't stand to see him as president looking for anything to delegitimize him with... no other president has ever been asked to produce more than the law asks...

Those who don't accept the birth certificate as real, despite the State of Hawaii standing behind it are birthers.

If you don't want to be called that, don't be one.

I'm sorry that your little ploy to hurt Obama failed hugely and left your side looking "rediculous." LOL!

AmericaRepublic said:

If Obama would have had his sh-- together in the first place, none of this would have been a topic.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, he should have provided an official birth certificate for independent verification during the campaign, back in 2008. Then none of this would have been a topic, right?

Wait. That's exactly what Obama did back in 2008. So why was it "a topic" again? (oh yeah, crazy people)

Debora,

I know - it's just crazy how one person will start using a name and everyone will latch on to it

Even after the origin says the statement is false.

Crazy how that works.

but wait, it's just a pdf file, it's not the real thing, it's just a picture of the real thing, it's not real, i'ts not real, it's not real, it's not re................

The only thing that is crazy, is there is still people believing this clown like he's an Almighty Arch Angel. This guy has done more harm than good, and our Country, Your Country is suffering at the hands of an Idiot. Believe what you want..there is no point to tell someone any truth even if it is right in there face.

Yeah, there is alot of stuff you can get in Hawaii, cool waves to surf, places to eat, the culture, and Birth Certificates, heck he didn't have to fly all the way to Hawaii for that, but who cares right, it was on your tax paying money in order to gain a document...1+1=3, not the last time I checked...lol Next.

You, sir are a racist! Get off your high horse and read the idiocy that is coming out of your typewriter. .

that's ok americarepublic, we're with you now as we realize that this is not real, it's just a pdf file. keep the faith, keep up the good fight.

oh, and don't forget to get your donald trump hair style done later on.

what this country is suffering from is the greed of the corporations and oil industry. capitalism gone wild, forgetting that the people are more important than the bottom line. that is something that no president has control over seeing that the barn door has not only been left open, but taken off its hinges completely and burned. the harm done is residual from the eighties and the deregulations compliments of our 40th president.

LOL, you guys kill me, have fun supporting a failing President...

on the rebound of the failure of dubya and you see it as failing. it's those who have stood in the way of progress (the rank and file republicans) who have kept us from taking steps forward.

OK?

Of course, the right wing thinks W was just great. Their ideas of success and failure are the inverse of what normal people know.

And what is your definition of "NORMAL PEOPLE"?

People like Van Jones, Bill Ayers, Tony Rezko, Saul Alinski, Chairman Mao, Karl Marx, Mr. Stalin, Castro.......... The LWN's hero ring!

There is not telling smellitcoming. I appreciate it.

Certainly not people who voted for Bush twice and still think his @!$%# don't stink.

America, have you ever been wrong?

Hey righties.... Isn't it interesting that your list of leftists don't include anyone who led anyone in America. There are plenty of those...... the Kennedys, Cuomo, Roosevelt, Javits, Brooke, Richards, Humphrey, etc. Both democrats and republicans who had the interests of the country in mind and were great American heros and heroines. Then we could look at some of your rightist leadership..... McCarthy, Wallace, Reagan, Agnew, Palin, Bachmann, Nixon, etc. Not exactly a people's hall of fame. By the way, if you are searching for non-office holding conservative shams try Hitler, Mussolini, Vereide, Limbaugh, Haggard and Dobson. There are nuts on both sides of the issue.

The point is, there hasn't been a significant advance in American culture that hasn't come from the progressive side. If we were to listen to most of you, we'd still be living in 1860

The point is, there hasn't been a significant advance in American culture that hasn't come from the progressive side.

Henry Ford was one of the most right-wing individuals of his time. So was Thomas J. Watson. Mass production of the automobile and the commercialization of digital computing are two of the most significant, if not the most significant, contributors to contemporary American culture.

The exception proves the rule.

those, my friend, are technological advances not cultural advances. Mr. Ford's cultural contribution to this country was rabid racism and anti-semitism, as proferred by his adoption of the screed "the protocols of the elders of zion".

The fact that he made money did not take away from the vile individual he was.

Not to mention that Ford didn't believe in civil liberty. He spied on his employees and potential employees hiring and firing based on his own personal preferences and proclivities. He was the J. Edgar Hoover of the auto industry sans Tu-Tu.