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JFXGILLIS

Correctly Political: Essays and Commentary
Articles Posted: 120  Links Seeded: 1512
Member Since: 3/2007  Last Seen: 5/17/2012

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Correctly Political: What if John Galt had a Special Needs Child?

Sun Nov 2, 2008 3:44 PM EST
politics, obama, sarah-palin, palin, socialism, election-08, special-education, down-syndrome, correctly-political, going-galt, go-galt
By jfxgillis

I'm desperately trying to write an article about Sarah Palin without uploading an image of her. So here's Ayn Rand, creator of "John Galt," instead.

I forget what he won this Gold for, but my brother was sure proud of it.

Point of personal information: I attended the very first Special Olympics.

Damn. I tried but I couldn't resist. This is such a nice picture of Sarah Palin and her daughter Piper.

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Lisa Schiffren at the National Review's group blog The Corner says something interesting and true, a rare enough thing at the Corner these days to warrant comment.


In "Canada or Galt's Gulch" she cites a spoof article in Slate devoted to the fate of Obama supporters in the event he loses (an imaginary exodus to Canada) and says:

Of course conservatives don't threaten to leave the U.S. as a rule. However, on more or less the same subject, I haven't heard so much about John Galt since ...well, ever. (And objectivists were thick on the ground in D.C. during the Reagan administration.)

(For the record, they were thick at the pinnacle, too, up to and including President Reagan's Chairman of the Federal Reserve, Alan Greenspan.)

Continuing, she explains:

I suppose, with all the projections of the Obama administration and its confiscatory tax rates on people and businesses, subordination of the productive to the dependent, public schools turned into training camps for radicals and legions of speech/thought police — i.e. — the end of liberty as we knew it — it might be time to start thinking about the mechanics of Galt's Gulch.

John Galt, for those not familiar, was the mysterious quasi-protagonist of Ayn Rand's hyper-libertarian/radical individualist tome Atlas Shrugged. Galt's great task was to inspire the self-motivated, self-actuating, self-reliant, self-proclaimed and self-deluded "producers" of Ayn Rand's hallucinated political economy to refuse to produce as a protest of the use of the goods of productive impulse being expropriated for the collective benefit.

I say "hallucinated" because when I read the book decades ago (I read 'em all, We The Living is far and away the best, but Atlas was a great read too except for the worthless 50-page polemic embedded near the end), I had to laugh at Rand's juvenile understanding of how the railroads in this country were built. As if some visionary entrepreneur was responsible. Yeah. Right. I wonder if anyone ever mentioned to Rand the fact that the land upon which the railroads were built was, um, originally public, much of it literally granted free to the railroads out of the common weal?

But I digress.

As I said, Schiffern's claim about hearing so much about Galt lately is in fact, true. If you follow the grass roots conservative movement, as I do, by way of friends and acquaintances, am talk radio, periodicals, blogs and comment threads, you do in fact hear more and more talk of a Galtian "strike." That raises two issues, one of which is serious.

The first goes straight to Schiffren's suggestion about the "mechanics" of Galtian protest. Surely, she jests? No, it appears she isn't joking, and I suspect most of the dispirited conservatives whispering about John Galt aren't joking either. But come the heck on. What does Schiffren think life would be like in Galt's Gulch? That she'll whittle her Corner items into planks of hand-hewn lumber and float them down some stream otherwise used to produce Coors beer to a breathlessly awaiting audience of other Galtian protestors?

Is she going to remain in place on whatever coast she lives on but protest by withdrawing from the dollar economy by way of the barter-, gold- or under-the-table economy? What's she going to do, trade Corner items with Jonah Goldberg, then sell them for gold at some flea market? Or in the parking lot of some Virginia gun show?

The reason why the threats of leaving the country by the Hollywood liberal/left were so easily mockable is that there was a degree of plausibility to the shrieks, unlikely as it may be that they'd have followed through. They are, after all, financially independent and their occupations do not require physical presence in the United States of America (in fact, frequently the opposite). But the threat of withdrawing from the American political economy is simply too ridiculous on its face to effectively mock, especially for right-wing blog posters whose primary occupation is right-wing blogging. What possible transaction is there that acquires, say, FOOD in return for, say, having written "Obama is a socialist" arguments that are not also inextricable from the formal political economy?

But seriously now.

The Republican Vice Presidential nominee Sarah Palin spent most of the past week excoriating Senator Obama for purported socialism. Although I don't know if she ever actually used the term "Nanny State," CNN attributed that sentiment to her without objection, based on this statement in North Dakota on October 25th:

It leads to government moving into the role of taking care of you, and government and politicians and, kind of moving in as the other half of your family to make decisions for you,” she said. “Now they do this in other countries where the people are not free. Government as part of the family, taking care of us, making decisions for us. I don’t know what to think of having in my family Uncle Barney Frank or others to make decisions for me.

What is so remarkable about that statement is that she made it less than twenty-four hours after making a substantive policy speech regarding policy proposals relating to "Special Needs Children" aka "Mentally Disabled Children," aka "Retarded Children." And what she was calling for in that speech was Socialism. Pure, unadulterated, concentrated Socialism. To anticipate a counterargument, "But Jack, we're talking about retarded kids here. Even if it is technically Socialism, no one is going to begrudge retarded children a claim on the public purse," I'd like to wait a bit on that. Quit interrupting and I'll get to that later.

To continue. Sarah Palin's "Special needs" speech is Socialistic on three grounds, as a practical public program, as an expression of philosophical premises, and as a deep moral First Principle.

As a practical program, I brainstormed with my family this week about the extent to which my brother, of whom I have written previously, absorbed resources from the public sector during his life, career and now his institutionalization. I have a better idea than what I'm about to report, but the question I asked was simply: Over or under a million dollars? Way over? Starting with special education fifty years ago, then job training, sheltered workshop, subsidized private-sector wages, subsidized housing, group home, Supplemental Social Security . . . the list went on. Consider this, which is probably true for almost all Special Needs folk: There was probably not a weekday of my brother's life from entering school at age five and for the fifty years afterward that he did not ride the "short bus" somewhere for something. All that diesel and gasoline adds up. On the one hand, the family provided some care that other families just left to the state, but on the other hand we were pretty rigorous about utilizing whatever programs were out there, so let's say those two tendencies roughly offset. As I said, I won't be too specific, but seems like over a million dollars is reasonable estimate.

Those resources are simply beyond the means of the vast majority of American families. There is NO WAY that an ordinary family can take the approximate lifetime earnings of the parents and devote them entirely to one special needs child with nothing leftover for the other children, mortgages, food, clothing and the other elements of living. For almost all of us, those expenses have to be literally "socialized" because the individual financial expense is just too great.

"But Jack," I can hear you again, "That's what I'm trying to tell you. That level of socialism for that purpose is okay." I told you to quit interrupting. Let me finish.

Next. In philosophical terms, the notion of Socialism has commonly been reduced to the aphorism "From each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs." Special education and related programs entail almost a perfect exemplar of that principle because the needs are so great relative to the abilities of the subjects. In many cases, even the term "disability" is too mild. We're talking "inability." Special education and affiliated public sector programs require major investment of resources for minor or sometimes negligible returns. The thing is, there's in truth just about as much education going on in Special Education as there is Olympics going in during the Special Olympics.

Which is not to say that either of those enterprises are not worthwhile. It's just that we value them not by the ordinary metrics of "Education" or "Olympics," but by genuinely subjective humane values. I don't remember for what event my brother won that Gold Medal pictured above (running?) but I doubt his achievement would have registered on a stopwatch. The idea is to create fulfillment and human dignity, not to achieve athletic excellence measured objectively or, in the case of education, to teach them valuable skills to be net producers in society. Even when my brother was in an employer-tax-credit subsidized private sector job, the objective reality was that a stoned fifteen-year-old would have more efficiently emptied the supermarket parking lot of shopping carts.

"But, Jack--" Okay, okay. Enough with the interruptions already. I'll respond now.

Socialism in this instance also vindicates and validates a moral First Principle. In Sarah Palin's case, she has won much praise from her supporters in the Pro-Life movement (even from her harshest critic in public commentary, Andrew Sullivan) for maintaining her moral doctrine that life begins at conception and that abortion is by definition evil--equivalent if not exactly murder--and choosing therefore to bear and raise her son Trig rather than to terminate the pregnancy once doctors told her he was suffering a genetic defect.

Consider. In her speech last Friday, Palin called for "full funding" Of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act. According to Sara Mead at the New America Foundation:

IDEA "full funding" is determined by a formula that multiplies the number of children with special needs, by the average per pupil expenditure in the United States, by 40 percent. For fiscal year 2008, fully funding IDEA would cost more than $25 billion dollars--more than double the roughly $11 billion the federal government spent on IDEA Part B grants this year. "Fully funding" IDEA next year would require roughly $15 billion in additional federal education spending ....

This means a couple of different things. First, after campaigning all year against Congressional earmarks, the sum total of which is about $20 billion, in one fell swoop in one little-remarked-upon speech, and with one Vice-Presidential earmark, Palin put back into the Federal budget at least 75% of the "savings" that might be generated in the unlikely event that all Congressional earmarks were eliminated.

Moreover, while at first glance it seems quite gratifying and uplifting to know that Special Needs children might have an "advocate in the White House," as Palin suggested in her nomination-acceptance speech, and it seems as if that is especially so because Palin is herself the mother of a Special Needs child, as you think a little deeper you realize that there is an aspect of self-interest to Palin's proposal. After all, does she not have a child certain to be a nominal beneficiary of the proposed large increase in federal funding?

Yes, a special needs child is more heart-warming than, say, a driver in Boston whose daily commute time is reduced because of Federal Funding of the Big Dig (for about the same $15 billion) but the principle is the same.

But there's an aspect deeper than that. Whether the presence or absence of Federal Special Education funding had any effect of Palin's decision not to terminate her pregnancy is so unlikely that I feel confident setting that probability at zero. If you're anti-abortion as a matter of metaphysical certainty, it's not like an incremental increase in the flow of federal money to local Special Education programs is going have any effect whatsoever on your decision. However, that Federal funding does have an effect on the consequences of that decision because Special Education is socialized. That is, society bears some portion of the financial cost of that decision. This is not, by the way, intended to argue that society should play even the slightest role in making the decision not to terminate. That is an area of intimate family conduct to which the state should have not the slightest claim. It is, however, to argue this: If Senator Obama is a Socialist, then so is Governor Palin. The difference is, his Socialism is the ordinary and banal sort ostensibly intended to support "poor people." Her Socialism supports "Those who hold to the doctrine that life begins at conception and that abortion is murder." Thus, the Special Needs children themselves are not the sole beneficiaries of socialized Special Education funding.

In fact, I would argue that the child is at most a secondary beneficiary, maybe even only the token beneficiary. To see why, I refer you to another little-noted statement by Sarah Palin last Friday. She sat down for an interview with the Chicago Tribune and discussed both her son Trig, afflicted with Down Syndrome, and her nephew Karcher, afflicted with autism. Autism is much more variable in its expression in terms of a person's ability to function and she does not directly say how functional Karcher is but, reading between the lines, it seems like his case is severe. The reporter's description of Palin's emotional response and the concern she attributes to her nephew's parents is heartbreaking:

Palin's eyes well up as she talks about her sister's son, Karcher, who has autism

"My sister and I have talked a lot about this. It makes me cry thinking about it," Palin said. "She asked with tears in her eyes, she says, 'What happens when Kurt and I, though, are elderly, then what happens to Karcher?' "

I know well the concern expressed by Sarah's sister not from a lifetime of experience, but from a lifetime of witness. I know that it is a burden--an unbearable burden in some families, bearable in others, but it is always a burden. Lifting that burden even a small bit is an incalculable benefit. And Socializing that burden is both humane and essential. But let us not fool ourselves, it is not the Special Needs child to whom that benefit accrues. How do they know what their families are worried about decades from now? The greatest, enduring socialistic benefit of Special Education goes not to the child, but to the family around the child. From Grandparents to the youngest sibling. When I think about Piper Palin fifty years from now ....

I wonder what John Galt would say about that?

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  • Public Discussion (80)
jfxgillis

Been brooding this for a week ....

  • 9 votes
Reply#1 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 3:45 PM EST
greenpagan

Outstanding article. You've outdone yourself this time. It's worth an Obama Prize…an extra Newsvine bud…and a gold-plated four-leaf clover…

====

  • 7 votes
Reply#2 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 5:18 PM EST
jfxgillis

GP:

Thanks, man. It was hard to write.

  • 7 votes
#2.1 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 5:26 PM EST
schnoo

and a gold-plated four-leaf clover…

Maybe an aluminum-plated krugerRand.  ;^)

Does anyone read Ayn Rand anymore?  I mean, other than if they have to. 

  • 7 votes
#2.2 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 5:39 PM EST
jfxgillis

schnoo:

No kidding. Google "John Galt" and "Obama."

Instapundit's silly wife has a post up about reducing tipping as a Galtian measure in the event Obama wins. She's a psychotherapist--think she'll bring a "productive" skill to the colony in the Rockies?

  • 6 votes
#2.3 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 6:38 PM EST
schnoo

Never heard of her. Another Dr. Ding-bat.  She's a "forensic psychologist?"  How'd you like to have that witch testifying against you?

"Since he's obviously pro-Obama and therefore mentally disabled and should be stepped on like a bug, a life sentence in front of a firing squad seems more than reasonable to me, your honor." 

  • 3 votes
#2.4 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 6:52 PM EST
rickace

Does anyone read Ayn Rand anymore?  I mean, other than if they have to.

schnoo,

I read Atlas Shrugged voluntarily in 1994. The bailouts of today and Hank Paulson's arm-twisting are an eerie parallel to the malfeasance of the government in the novel. You, and I, and everyone else who owns dollars are playing the role of Hank Rearden. John Galt, however, is nowhere to be found.

  • 4 votes
#2.5 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 1:10 PM EST
Arad

John Galt, however, is nowhere to be found.

So, I suppose that begs the question...

Where is John Galt?

>_>

  • 3 votes
#2.6 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 1:19 PM EST
Reply
greenpagan


Of course conservatives don't threaten to leave the U.S. as a rule.

Yeah. They just declare a Confederacy and call it a day…

====

  • 6 votes
Reply#3 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 5:20 PM EST
rickace

Galt's great task was to inspire

Jack,

John Galt opposed the ills of the era.

  • 4 votes
Reply#4 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 5:46 PM EST
jfxgillis

Rick:

New ills for a new time?

  • 3 votes
#4.1 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 7:31 PM EST
Reply
analog ninja

For some reason I believe that providing services to individuals with special needs was just simply part of the economics of the pubic trust/ public good.

Stimulating article that hits many points of both human and political interest, while also pointing out the contradictory message being put forth by our conservative friends.

In some way I feel that I just watched something on 60 minutes circa 1984. Ah nostalgia!

  • 5 votes
Reply#5 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 6:07 PM EST
jfxgillis

analog:

Thanks! (can't get higher praise than "mid-80s 60 Minutes." damn it was greart then.)

... providing services to individuals with special needs was just simply part of the economics of the pubic trust/ public good.

You know, I thought so too until Palin forced me to re-consider my premises. I watched her Special Needs speech--of course, I have a personal interest--then was thinking what to write the next day when this "Nanny State" headline crossed my wire. I thought "Wait a minute. You just yesterday LITERALLY called for the state to be a Nanny. Wazzup?"

  • 7 votes
#5.1 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 6:49 PM EST
Reply
greengal

jfxgillis - Great piece!  This piece lays out, for a very unique situation, things that need to be said for the many more common - mundane - things that people face in their daily lives.

Whenever I hear the accusations made and 'socialism' tossed around like just another dirty word, I always think - 'these people don't even have a clue as to what the word or the  philosophy behind it is'.  All the 'purists', all the 'I did it all on my own'  types need to be asked, directly, what's their excuse for taking help - be it preferable tax treatment, tax deductions, subsidization of business or other activity, etc. -  it has to be recognized for what it is - SOCIALISM and any response based on the 'well, it's legal', etc. excuse is not an acceptable answer. 

This is not to say that any of these socialized measures are bad (quite the contrary), only that they should be recognized for what they are, and that to deny that this is the case is a fantasy.  Unfortunately, in our society - socialism has been associated with help for the poor when, in fact, we suffer from the excesses of 'corporate welfare' to the exclusion of the society as a whole.

  • 3 votes
Reply#6 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 6:08 PM EST
jfxgillis

greengal:

Thank you so much!

... be it preferable tax treatment, tax deductions, subsidization of business or other activity, etc. -  it has to be recognized for what it is - SOCIALISM and any response based on the 'well, it's legal', etc. excuse is not an acceptable answer. 

Absolutely positively spot on. Bullseye.

Don't hem and haw and temporize, just say--"Okay. It's socialized. What's it to ya?"

I was going to link Jon Stewart's brilliant riff off McCain doing just that on MTP on Monday, but it wouldn't have fit the tone of the article.

  • 6 votes
#6.1 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 7:03 PM EST
greengal

jfxgillis-

Thanks for the link to the Jon Stewart piece- loved it!  I don't have cable or satellite, so I have to pick up his stuff and that of others on the net when it is pointed out to me by friends and family or referred to on another site.

  • 1 vote
#6.2 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 2:29 PM EST
Reply
The Incredulous One

Now that's an article. Gotta give ya props. man. If Newsvine had a best article competition, I'd nominate this one. Wish I had time now to comment on your points. Really good, jfx.

  • 3 votes
Reply#7 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 6:19 PM EST
jfxgillis

Incred:

Thanks man. Means tons extra coming from the other side of the aisle.

  • 6 votes
#7.1 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 6:30 PM EST
The Incredulous One

You're welcome, and as the uncle of a Down's child who's now (I can barely believe it) in her 30's, your article touched me personally as well as intellectually. You made an excellent argument, and the writing is superior. Btw, I think the first person POV is exactly right for this piece; third person would make it too analytical and detached. Nope, this one's a keeper.

(sheesh, must be the "feel good" meds kicking in...I love you, man) ;>)

  • 5 votes
#7.2 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 7:39 PM EST
jfxgillis

Incred:

Your niece do the Special Olympics? I should tell you the story of the first one but I'm little ashamed of myself.

:^{)>

  • 4 votes
#7.3 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 7:53 PM EST
E.D.Kain

Now that's an article. Gotta give ya props. man. If Newsvine had a best article competition, I'd nominate this one. Wish I had time now to comment on your points. Really good, jfx.

Second that.  Truly.  Nuanced, touching, thoughtful.  Indeed, Palin has demonstrated other socialist tendencies in her redisribution of oil company wealth in Alaska.

But more imporatantly, I think we as a society need to recognize when there is a time for collective support of a group of people and when that support will do more damage than good.  In the case of special needs citizens, I think it is a societal duty to support them.  Society is, after all, in existence to support and protect its members.  We can't always do this through free markets, even if trade and commerce are normally the best way to ensure mutual prosperity.  The fascists took the other course, knowing that the special needs population could not contribute fully to society they sought to eliminate them altogether.

It's all very complicated, so thanks for giving such a personal, reflective treatise on the matter...

  • 5 votes
#7.4 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 3:01 PM EST
jfxgillis

E.D.:

Thanks!!

As I imply below, I think an a priori committment to either radical collectivism or radical individualism as the primary element of human nature is false, and social organization derived from either of those premises is doomed to failure. (In passing: I think there's probably a sociobiological reason for that, but I'm not about to try to prove it!)

  • 3 votes
#7.5 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 3:22 PM EST
E.D.Kain

jack,

I had a long conversation with my wife about this this weekend, and the problem with radical individualism is it actually hurts the individual.  In this country we leap from individualism to nationalism via technology, TV, etc. and skip the important in-betweens such as local community, neighborhood, family, etc.  The infrastructure of our towns and freeways contributes to this as well.

In short, I believe strong communities prop up the invidividual, and invidividuals prop up strong communities.  So obviously legislation aimed solely at one or the other is short-sighted....

  • 4 votes
#7.6 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 4:00 PM EST
greengal

E.D. -

...I believe strong communities prop up the invidividual, and invidividuals prop up strong communities.  So obviously legislation aimed solely at one or the other is short-sighted....

Well, said!  IMHO, all things are connected, so to think and act like 'we' are the exception or are 'exceptional' is a falacy.  Everything and everyone is dependent on everything else for their wellbeing.

  • 2 votes
#7.7 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 4:16 PM EST
The Incredulous One

Your niece do the Special Olympics? I should tell you the story of the first one but I'm little ashamed of myself.

I don't recall that she did, but my wife says she was in some trials or something. My only Special Olympics story involves Mohammed Ali on a flight my wife was on. The Champ was clowning around and entertaining all the Special Olympics kids and everyone was having a grand ole time.

I'm little ashamed of myself.

ooh, ooh, everyone who wants to hear this, raise your hands. I do. I do.

  • 4 votes
#7.8 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 10:09 PM EST
jfxgillis

Incred:

Aw, it's not that good. Eunice Shriver put the first one together by basically having a few of the Eastern Massachusetts day camp/Summer programs for kids with disability all congregate at one of the camps. Which one happened to be the one I volunteered at (I was 13 or 14) as counselor.

Ten times more work than usual, we had to work on a Saturday, etc. and we all hated it (except for one thing: The KENNEDYS would be there!!!) Anyway, we all thought it was the dumbest idea ever and hoped they'd never do another one.

Kids. Uh.

  • 5 votes
#7.9 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 10:24 PM EST
Reply
Waynester

I'm pretty sure having a special needs child would not make Galt want to make slaves of his neighbors. It would not create in them a mortgage on their lives and productivity, though he would likely accept voluntary help if he needed it but only if he needed it.

  • 3 votes
Reply#8 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 6:45 PM EST
jfxgillis

Waynester:

Let me blunt. John Galt wouldn't be John Galt if he had a special needs child. He did exactly what Sarah Palin just did--rely on the collective to reduce the burden.

An unproductive member of a community in a harsh environment surviving only on it's individual capacity to produce?

Do you know how the Pagan Norse used to solve that problem in an environment similar to "Galt's Gulch"?

  • 6 votes
#8.1 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 7:31 PM EST
Waynester

John Galt is a fictional character, Jack. A fictional character. An archetype, an ideal. I don't really care how the Pagan Norse did anything to be honest. How did the Chinese ensure sons? Why do liberals think abortion should be legal and available on demand up to and even after birth? You don't want to get in a sanctity of life argument, considering the side for which you cheerlead and it's preposterous positions.

  • 3 votes
#8.2 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 11:12 PM EST
jfxgillis

Waynester:

Why do liberals think abortion should be legal and available on demand up to and even after birth?

Most liberals don't think that. Lots of conservatives think that liberals think that, but those conservatives are wrong.

  • 6 votes
#8.3 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 11:25 PM EST
Waynester

You want to compare the number of pro-life Dems to pro-choice Republicans?

 But I hope you are right anyway.

  • 1 vote
#8.4 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 8:41 AM EST
rickace

He did exactly what Sarah Palin just did--rely on the collective to reduce the burden. An unproductive member of a community in a harsh environment surviving only on it's individual capacity to produce?

Jack, Atlas Shrugged does not address a collective cure for societal ills. It's about the damned government ripping off the good guys like Hank Rearden and Ellis Wyatt. And guess what? Our government including your party is ripping you and me off.

I'm with John Galt, Francisco d’Anconia, and Ragnar Danneskjöld. Whose side are you on?

  • 3 votes
#8.5 - Tue Nov 4, 2008 9:31 AM EST
jfxgillis

rick:

Whose side are you on?

Not Galt's.

  • 4 votes
#8.6 - Tue Nov 4, 2008 9:38 AM EST
Reply
caltha-palustris

Great article, Jack.

One criticism: person first.  Sorry, it's grating.  Please don't take offense.

One question for Governor Palin:  When did they stop fully funding the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (a.k.a. IDEA)?  I thought it was the cash cure for most school districts.  I never realized the formula was only 40%.  Thanks for clarifying that detail.

Re:  Your families' benfit.  To be sure?  Probably way over a few million, Jack. {Just total all the social worker/child study teams.}  But, I'm not the one counting.

In answer to Governor Palin's concern over elderly parents of children with severe disabilities, I'm sure the NJ Dept. of Health and Human Services could provide the stats on the number of elderly parents currently on wait-lists for community housing for their adult children.

  • 6 votes
#9 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 6:47 PM EST
jfxgillis

caltha:

Thanks! But about your criticism, did you mean the first-person grammatical construction? To be honest, I teach that. But to be fair, I also always warn the students that others teachers they encounter might mind. A lot. And that they should be prepared to use a more neutral and detached p.o.v.

On your other points--it's my understanding that IDEA has never been fully-funded, but that districts scramble (earmarky-wise) for whatever fraction is funded year-to-year.

And you are also spot on. When we started we figured, "oh, maybe not a million." Then we did some adding and figured, "oh heck yeah, over a million." Then my Mom IMed me just as I was posting saying "Oh, gee, we never figured in the social workers." Oh yeah, we could've kept counting.

NJ is a high-tax/high-service state. What do you figure the wait list is for oh, say, Arkansas?

  • 7 votes
#9.1 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 7:26 PM EST
caltha-palustris

No.  I meant person before disability. Pshaw to teachers who just don't get it.  There are boatloads of them out there, some of whom may derive their salaries from IDEA and school districts that abuse their power.  But, that's another touchy subject for me.  

Re: NJ wait-list delay (when I was more active) was due to inadequate federal funding issues.

Furthermore on the transistion from school life to adult life: A man I knew, twenty years ago, was one of the first adults to transition into community housing back in the day when it began. He lived at home into his adult life.  Forgotten how old he was when he landed a slot in community housing.   But, in the days after NJ closed its state psychiatric health facilities (Institutions), his mother mentioned to me that many individuals, whom had been "institutionalized" at birth, had the greatest difficulty to leap in making the transition.  Needless to say, this man's family was relieved he was able to land a slot.  His father, I'll add, was a well respected NJ judge.  It's a parent's greatest fear, to not outlive an atypical child.

  • 4 votes
#9.2 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 7:54 PM EST
jfxgillis

caltha:

No.  I meant person before disability.

Gotcha. But heck, I still let "mongoloid" slip out of my mouth every now and then. These things get ingrained. I can see why it grates. Sorry.

The family home/group home/big institution thing is just a terrible nut to crack. Age, type of disability, degree, it's so hard to get it all right. MA right now is under an anti-warehousing court order, a necessary order. But it pushes the bureaucracy in one direction when individual needs might push things the other.

  • 6 votes
#9.3 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 8:16 PM EST
caltha-palustris

Jack, indeed.

Well, I hope MA has been a bit more thoughtful in going about it.  IMO, NJ has done it very badly. Organizations such as The ARC have been given the task to help pick-up the slack. 

RE: wait-lists, this from the ARC (data from July 2007):

Currently there are 7,903* individuals with developmental disabilities on the waiting list for residential supports and services. More than half of these individuals, 4,709*, are in the "Priority Category." This means they are living at home with aging parents or have significant needs and challenges which have made it impossible for their families to continue to support them at home. These families have been waiting for many years for a community placement that is carefully planned and appropriate for their son or daughter. 

To continue, but veer off topic a bit, there are many more other individuals with mental illness in really, really, dire straits.  First, the psychiatric facilities were forced closed as part of the "deinstitutionalization" process between the 1960s through the 1980s (the result of deplorable conditions in state run facilities), and then subsequently residents were just dropped off somewhere. 

Currently, the very same crisis remains as many residential health care facilities are closing at an alarming rate, for a variety of reasons, or more aptly for severe code violations, (not to mention some new facilities planned in affluent NIMBY communities are being legally obstructed from even opening doors in these communities.  See West Orange.).  

And we all know what the alternative is. 

Palin and her sister do make a very valid point; a very bleak one at that. The private and nonprofit sectors cannot do this alone, and conservatives who think it can are either cruel, inhumane or severely misinformed.

  • 3 votes
#9.4 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 12:18 AM EST
jfxgillis

caltha:

I got some private feedback on your feedback from a pro in the business who pointed out that the waiting list is only half the story.

There's huge population of families that just putter along for decades without doing anything until the parents just can't do it anymore. Then the the remaining family members go into panic trying to get the person with disability into the system like, NOW if not sooner.

  • 5 votes
#9.5 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 11:49 AM EST
caltha-palustris

Jack,

I know this is a subject very close to your heart, so please forgive me.

What is perplexing (and, troubling) to me is: with the amount of information available to families from the time a child is diagnosed to the time of graduation (0 -21yrs) via EI programs, family health services, public education, professional conferences, health professionals, and so on; how is it possible that so many families would not think about - "what if"? 

Is it denial? Ignorance? Does your contact understand why families plod along for decades?  There are workshops conducted here that address the transition into adulthood, practically forcing parents to think about a plan.  I do know an issue some parents have, is in giving the state full custody.

I learned (merely as a concerned citizen) about the housing wait-list issue almost two decades ago; from the SICC for Early Intervention (and btw: the head of the lead agency that received federal funding for state EI programs, expressed concern about wait-listsfor adults at a public EI SICC meeting I attended), and the mother of the individual I described in my comment above.  So how is it possible that agencies are not anticipating and addressing it?  I say it's also a severe shortfall of public dollars addressing the problem, as well as, group homes which deplorable living conditions - and not just parents in denial about the future.  I know parents who are thinking, and planning ahead.  It certainly isn't easy. It's heart-wrenching, really.

RE: Ayn Rand and Sarah Palin

I'm not sure how to measure this with the rubric of Ayn Rand's Objectivism, or Sarah Palin's rejection of Socialism (clearly Palin doesn't understand what it is, Christians, by their very belief system and creed, are Socialists - for crying out loud!). 

I've come to believe that human psychological nature tends to allow societal systems that stigmatize others, those whom are different.  And, what follows is blame, shame, revenge and exclusion.  Philosophy and religion have not adequately addressed how to correct human nature.

Heh! And, now for something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.  Cue the Monty Python theme song...  I can't BELIEVE IT!  A pundit on CNN just blurted out "...Ted Stevens, now a convicted felon...blah, blah, blah" as the pundit discussed the various races around the country.  Oh, that made my day!  Elect Ted Stevens for Senator, now a convicted felon!  I'll be chuckling over that one all day.  Who knew AK would top NJ's record of corrupted pols! 

Good grief! Did I just stigmatize Ted Stevens?!?

  • 3 votes
#9.6 - Tue Nov 4, 2008 8:54 AM EST
E.D.Kain

Good grief! Did I just stigmatize Ted Stevens?!?

I think Stevens has done a good enough job of that himself.

clearly Palin doesn't understand what it is, Christians, by their very belief system and creed, are Socialists - for crying out loud!

We are all socialists now... ;-)  But in all seriousness, it's silly for the McCain camp to wield that word like a sword so shortly after the bailout passed...

  • 3 votes
#9.7 - Tue Nov 4, 2008 9:23 AM EST
caltha-palustris

EDK,

Jon Stewart has a neat examination of McCain's defense of his rhetoric on Socialism and how it matters when there is a financial crisis.  I'll see if I can find the episode.

  • 3 votes
#9.8 - Tue Nov 4, 2008 9:35 AM EST
jfxgillis

caltha:

Don't have to look far. I linked it in comment #6.1

  • 3 votes
#9.9 - Tue Nov 4, 2008 9:44 AM EST
jfxgillis

caltha:

with the amount of information available to families from the time a child is diagnosed to the time of graduation (0 -21yrs) via EI programs, family health services, public education, professional conferences, health professionals, and so on;

Are you kidding? It's amazing the number of families that don't use the system ever at all in the first place. I do believe space guy's cousin who he described in a thread a couple of months ago fits into that category (I could be wrong, it just seemed that way by implication).

Philosophy and religion have not adequately addressed how to correct human nature.

Not that they haven't tried. It's just that human nature is too deep and complicated for any of the models we have to adequately represent it. So they always dissolve eventually in paradox and contradiction or else they fail.

  • 4 votes
#9.10 - Tue Nov 4, 2008 9:56 AM EST
rickace

Senator McCain: "The role of government is to intervene when a nation is in crisis."

Dead wrong. Governmental intervention spawned Fannie and Freddie and helped to put us in the damned mess we're in today. Read the Constitution. The role of government is to govern. Period. Don't tamper with the private sector.

  • 2 votes
#9.11 - Tue Nov 4, 2008 10:00 AM EST
rickace

I'm not sure how to measure this with the rubric of Ayn Rand's Objectivism, or Sarah Palin's rejection of Socialism (clearly Palin doesn't understand what it is, Christians, by their very belief system and creed, are Socialists - for crying out loud!).

Cal - I'm a Christian and I'm all for helping my neighbors with monetary donations and volunteer work. That's a duty that falls on all of us in the private sector, and not on the government.

  • 2 votes
#9.12 - Tue Nov 4, 2008 10:08 AM EST
rickace

Philosophy and religion have not adequately addressed how to correct human nature.

Correct human nature? To what specifications? Yours or mine?

Philosophy and religion are merely tools. If I use a saw and a hammer to build a birdhouse, I don't credit the saw and the hammer for building that birdhouse, I credit myself. If a person cannot make use of philosophy or religion or any other conceptual tool to improve his or her own life, it is not the fault of the tools.

  • 2 votes
#9.13 - Tue Nov 4, 2008 10:25 AM EST
caltha-palustris

Jack,

I knew I saw the Stewart piece somewhere.  Thought it was on Schnoo's thread.

And, no.  I kid you not.  I guess I know more families  that take whatever services are offered, out of sheer necessity, or have taken it a step further in outreach to each other for: information; moral support; advocacy; and guidance they may find lacking through inadequate public services.

(Perhaps, I can't see all the individual trees from the forest because the stands of trees are fewer and farther between.  Thanks for the gentle reminder.)

Rick,

Correct human nature?

Perhaps, (and doing my best McCain impersonation) "correct" is probably the wrong term.  How do the terms "amend", or "improve", sound to you?  You do believe human nature can be improved?  Don't you?  You do believe in economies of scale, don't you? 

Then why is government intervention not necessary in offering services that would improve the quality of life for some; as the private sector just cannot deliver upon due to economies of scale. 

Quite frankly, my personal position is: government CAN'T do it alone.  There MUST be partnership between private, public and nonprofit in order to make a difference.  We will never return to the ideal and idea (thank goodness), of some conservatives that defines Hoover's "rugged individualism".  It just ain't gonna happen, my friend.

To what specifications?

Specifications?  How about if we start with some good old fashioned behavior modification and verbal behavior.  Problematic? Of course it is.  Who said life is easy? 

To be more blunt about it, I believe in the motto "It takes a mile ..."  so Socialism doesn't frighten me the way it frightens you.

BTW: I hope no one takes offense, or thinks I believe in torture, just because I think B.F. Skinner was on to something. 

Personally, I'd say a little rough justice of behavior modification (I'm thinking B.F. Skinner's early experiments that proved his theory) for all the greedy rainmakers at Bear Stearns Lehman, AIG, Countrywide (and the rest in my six-fingers of blame)  seems to be in order, just because of their abuse of the public trust (you know, the necessary grease in the success) in our financial system.  I think it's referred to in some circles as "break a few fingers".

  • 3 votes
#9.14 - Tue Nov 4, 2008 11:21 AM EST
rickace

How do the terms "amend", or "improve", sound to you?  You do believe human nature can be improved?

Err, yes. But I don't want the government deciding what "improve" means. Until recently, New York had a statute making sodomy between consenting unmarried adults a misdemeanor. So to "improve" my behavior I'd have had to marry my girlfriend before she could give me a blowjob. What's to stop the government from deciding that gays could be "amended" by attending classes that explained why their sexual orientation is wrong?

Socialism doesn't frighten me the way it frightens you.

I am not frightened by socialism. I oppose it on Constitutional grounds. The founding fathers never intended the government to step in and do for the people what they must rightfully do for themselves. Our federal tax dollars have but one purpose: funding the operation of the government. That means paying salaries of governmental employees and other expenses to carry out the task of governing.

When the government steps in to provide "social" services, it gets fleeced. My father had a surgical procedure done in a local hospital a few years ago. The whole thing was covered under his federal retirement insurance plan. When he saw the unitemized bill which the insurance was going to pay, the total seemed too large. So he requested an itemized bill from the hospital. Turns out they billed a $3,900 charge twice. He alerted the insurance office, which then reduced the payment. Had dad not done that, the government would have overpaid.

Another case in point is the Freddie/Fannie fiasco which was sold under the banner of "Home ownership would improve poor and crime-ridden communities and neighborhoods in terms of crime, investment, jobs, etc." We all know what happened to that. As the Dems and a few Pubs rode the gravy train, a mega-disaster was growing. President Bush knew the danger but could not persuade Congress to address it:

President Bush, reviled and criticized by Democrats, tried no fewer than 17 times, by White House count, to raise the issue of Fannie-Freddie reform. A bill cleared the Senate Banking panel in 2005, but stalled due to implacable opposition from Democrats and a critical core of GOP abettors. Rep. Barney Frank, who now runs the powerful House Financial Services Committee, helped spearhead that fight.

I don't want the government to ever put the country at such risk again. There's a timeline on the topic here, and evidence that the pols in Congress were bought and paid for by executives of Freddie and Fannie.

Socialism fosters corruption. Redistributing the the nation's wealth to fraudulent health care providers and greedy members of Congress is not a role I want my government to play.

  • 2 votes
#9.15 - Tue Nov 4, 2008 1:05 PM EST
caltha-palustris

Socialism fosters corruption.

And capitalism does not?!?  Shirley.  You jest.  

Oh c'mon.  If you believe either of these premises to be true, then I'd like to let you in on a great deal...see, there's this bridge for sale over the East River and it'll only cost you....

I don't have time to address the rest of your comment, but I'll return later tonite.  Enjoy the sunshine, Rick.

  • 2 votes
#9.16 - Tue Nov 4, 2008 3:25 PM EST
Reply
Arad

I'm surprised noone has asked the obvious...

Who is John Galt?

(+1 lit geek points to me. >_>)

  • 1 vote
Reply#10 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 10:30 AM EST
jfxgillis

Arad:

As Jon Stewart would say, "DAMMMMMMMNN YOU, ARAD!!!!!!!!"

:^{)>

(That would've been a perfect topic sentence for second-para intro to Galt.)

  • 2 votes
#10.1 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 11:29 AM EST
Arad

:P

My college roommate had a bumper sticker of 'Who is John Galt?', which is why I thought of it now.

  • 1 vote
#10.2 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 11:37 AM EST
Russ-450445

<chuckle>  Nice one.

  • 1 vote
#10.3 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 12:16 PM EST
Reply
Russ-450445

I swear by my Life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for the sake of mine.

That is the oath John Galt devised.  Neither the oath nor John Galt nor Ayn Rand would have us think that this means you are not responsible for taking care of those who need help.  It simply means that you will your life the way you see fit and you expect others to do the same.  I do not see any conflict at all with caring for others.

  • 3 votes
Reply#11 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 12:15 PM EST
jfxgillis

Russ:

It's really very simple. Some care is impossible to provide by way of radical-indiviualist institutions. John Galt can swear all the oaths he wants but in the end, No Man is an Island. Constructing social organization as if a Man is an Island is doomed to failure.

None of this is to say that the Collective must always and in every way be prior to the Individual. That no more comports with what we know of Human Nature than Galt's juvenile postulate that the Individual must always and in every way be prior to the Collective.

BTW, this is purely serendiptious, but did you hear Obama decry those who declare the "Virtue of Selfisness"? That cannot have been a coincidence. I was three-quaters done writing this when he said it and couldn't figure out how to work it in.

  • 4 votes
#11.1 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 12:46 PM EST
Russ-450445

We'll just have to disagree...

I think the only way for the Collective to survive and even thrive is for the Individual to always be prior.

I do not read Rand as saying that the goal is to organize society as Man is an Island.  I read her more as saying "to thine own self be true" and once people realize that they must put themselves first versus living for another person's sake, then they realize how much of a stake they actually have in creating a larger society that allows all to be true to themselves.

It seems you and I just look at it from different points of view.  I am OK with that and I hope you are as well.  We both do seem to agree though that No Man is an Island and that we all bear some responsibilty to help each other.

  • 3 votes
#11.2 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 4:35 PM EST
jfxgillis

Russ:

Your reading of Rand's position is correct and well-stated. However, the point is that I think Rand was wrong. Sometimes people need to put themselves first to find society, sometimes they need to put society first to find themselves.

My complaint with Rand--and it's the same for Marx--is that any theory of human nature that can reduced to a single statement is so oversimplified as to be unworkably false.

  • 3 votes
#11.3 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 6:26 PM EST
Russ-450445

jfxgillis,

It was clear you believe Rand was wrong.  Your last statement there is essentially correct: human nature cannot be reduced to a slogan and not be oversimplified.

However, you have fallen into the oversimplification trap yourself.  Your statement and John Galt's oath are not mutually exclusive as you appear to believe.

jfxgillis:

Sometimes people need to put themselves first to find society, sometimes they need to put society first to find themselves.

John Galt's Oath:

I swear by my Life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for the sake of mine.

  • 1 vote
#11.4 - Tue Nov 4, 2008 10:50 AM EST
Reply
savannahborn

You put your finger on the issue that keeps many conservatives from fleeing wholesale into the libertarian party and signing on as disciples of Ayn Rand.  She had no respect for the lives and value of those she considered inferior.  She would never fall on the side of "right to life" or see the dignity and value of those among us we call disabled.  She scoffed at faith and compassion and was horrified by the idea of a sacrificial life.  I am fascinated by many of her views and interested to hear her philosophy, but I reject her disdain for the lives of those she considered inferior, and will never buy her line of thought wholesale.  Nothing is black and white.  I can accept that.  (I know you are criticizing Palin, but this is what it provoked in me.)

  • 3 votes
Reply#12 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 8:02 PM EST
jfxgillis

savanah:

Nicely stated!

  • 3 votes
#12.1 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 8:27 PM EST
savannahborn

Thank you kind sir.

  • 2 votes
#12.2 - Tue Nov 4, 2008 4:20 AM EST
rickace

She had no respect for the lives and value of those she considered inferior.

savannahborn

Can you cite anything that proves Ayn Rand considered anyone inferior?

  • 2 votes
#12.3 - Tue Nov 4, 2008 10:56 AM EST
Reply
savannahborn

Rickace,

I can't cite the exact time code on the tape, but she rather bluntly said that in her interview with Donahue.  She did indeed consider those who had a limited functionality inferior, or those were the sentiments she expressed in that interview.  She was facinating, and compelling, and I found I could not agree with her.

  • 3 votes
Reply#13 - Tue Nov 4, 2008 11:54 AM EST
caroaber

I, too, have a family member who requires extra attention:  A Day in the Life (Part I), Some Things Matter and School Break.

It has certainly been a challenge and a reward in dealing with the school bureaucracies (he'd been "kicked out" of two schools already by age 8), doctors, and medical personnel, but we fight on.

What else can we do?

  • 2 votes
Reply#14 - Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:56 PM EST
jfxgillis

carober:

Is that the son who took his First Holy Communion this year? Great article.

  • 4 votes
#14.1 - Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:15 PM EST
caroaber

(Yes, my one and only.)

Thanks.

  • 2 votes
#14.2 - Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:36 PM EST
jfxgillis

carober:

Best wishes in finding solutions.

  • 4 votes
#14.3 - Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:47 PM EST
Reply
Nathan Ramia

jfxgillis,

Irrelevant to the vast majority of your very interesting article, but just a quick note on:

...the land upon which the railroads were built was, um, originally public, much of it literally granted free to the railroads out of the common weal?

Rand addresses public/governmental involvement in the building of the railroads in an essay in Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal. I don't have it in front of me, but I remember that she cited each railroad that took government aid as sliding quickly to bankruptcy and those that denied that aid as persisting to [that] day. Of course, she manages to tie it back to the inviolate sanctity of capitalism, but she makes a few valid points and clearly did her fair share of study on the railroads.

  • 1 vote
Reply#15 - Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:17 PM EST
jfxgillis

Nathan:

I'll scout around for your reference. But at any rate, to deny public sector investment and privilege had no bearing on the rise and profitability of the railroads wholistically is just silly. For instance, even if Rand is right about the railroads who got land grants going bankrupt while those who didn't remained solvent (which I doubt), who do you suppose acquired the holdings of the bankrupt railroads?

As Lewis Lapham once pointed out in a Haper's Notebook, railroad lawyers comprised a majority on the Supreme Court from Reconstruction to the New Deal.

  • 2 votes
#15.1 - Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:42 PM EST
caltha-palustris

who do you suppose acquired the holdings of the bankrupt railroads?

John Pierpont Morgan, Sr.; while wining and dining "railroad men" on Morgan's yacht, Corsair. IOW: a banker.

  • 2 votes
#15.2 - Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:51 PM EST
Reply
alkimija

Well-done.

Not to be too vulgar about it, but if John Galt had a special needs child, in all likelihood he would have first sexually assaulted them, and then turned them out to starve, while the rest of the randroids gathered around to point and laugh and perhaps even applaud. I'm not even going to mention what I think Rand herself would have done.

  • 2 votes
Reply#16 - Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:27 AM EST
jfxgillis

alki:

Thanks!

But, ah, how to put this delicately after you were so vulgar (if entirely accurate) ... I thought you were a bit of a randroid?

p.s. This article pissed me off at the time just because .... I take Sarah Palin seriously, she gave a serious speech on a serious subject and I took it seriously--and seem to be the only person in the world who did.

  • 2 votes
#16.1 - Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:36 AM EST
alkimija

I'm a little hurt, Jack. =( I wouldn't consider myself a randroid in the slightest, especially according to those internet political tests I find myself responding to every now and then.

When a person has lost their credibility, they can speak indisputable truths and will still find themselves ignored. It's unfortunate that Palin's speech came at this time and not earlier.

  • 3 votes
#16.2 - Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:03 PM EST
jfxgillis

alki:

Seriously. I thought you had Rand cited on the recommendations page on your column? Or your bio or something?

I didn't mean it to sound as perjorative as it came out. I have a a fairly complete Ayn Rand set on my shelves (I think all the books from We the Living to Anthem) and have a bit of a randroid streak myself at times. I simply object when it dissolves into fantastically impractical anti-social argument.

  • 3 votes
#16.3 - Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:13 PM EST
alkimija

No Rand recommendations for me. I firmly believe the best uses for Atlas Shrugged are a book-stop and a fire-starter. I gave away the couple of books I was foolish enough to buy to people I didn't really like (in a fit of unarguably passive-aggressive behaviour). Having firmly established that I'm no soulless Randian monster, I'm going to go enjoy a cup of coffee and some child-flavoured cheerios. ;)

  • 3 votes
#16.4 - Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:44 PM EST
Perrie

Having firmly established that I'm no soulless Randian monster, I'm going to go enjoy a cup of coffee and some child-flavoured cheerios. ;)

So now you will have to define what kind of monster you are. Mull this over your coffee and Cherrios. Inquiring minds would like to know! ;-)

  • 2 votes
#16.5 - Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:51 PM EST
Reply
Perrie

Great Article Jack! BTW...Who is John Galt? ;-)

The old adage of,"Walk a mile in my shoes", comes to mind. I truly doubt that Sarah Palin would have this "Socialist Perspective" if she didn't have a special needs child. The fact that she does and supports special services as a conservative, only proves the hypocrisy of the conservatives. They might couch it as being consistent with the anti-abortion stance, but in reality all children with special needs should be provided for whether or not we know that they are special needs before birth or after. Although parents who have autistic children don't know that they will have a special needs child until after they are born, surely they deserve the special services that they need, but in most cases can't afford. Our government should extend care to all families with special needs children, and not just grant it as a reward for not having an abortion. Sorry Sarah, you don't get a financial reward for a religious stance.

OK, so I said my two bits and didn't lurk as per usual. But then again, this topic really gets me going as both an educator, and the aunt of a child of a child with autism.

  • 3 votes
Reply#17 - Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:54 PM EST
jfxgillis

Perrie:

Thanks!

They might couch it as being consistent with the anti-abortion stance, but in reality all children with special needs should be provided for whether or not we know that they are special needs before birth or after.

That's the old "life begins at conception and ends at birth" angle.

  • 2 votes
#17.1 - Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:17 PM EST
Perrie

That's the old "life begins at conception and ends at birth" angle.

Which drives me utterly mad. Have those babies because god says that life begins at conception, but after these children are brought into this world, well then life is hard and your on your own. Plainly put, that angle sucks.

  • 3 votes
#17.2 - Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:37 PM EST
Reply
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